In my last post I looked at the account of the Fall of man. The book of Genesis records Satan (which means ‘accuser’) in the guise of a serpent orchestrating this tragedy. But this raises an important question: Why would God create a ‘bad’ devil (which means ‘adversary’) to corrupt His good creation?
Lucifer – The Shining One
In fact the Bible records that God actually created a powerful, intelligent, and beautiful angelic being (the chief among all angels) called Lucifer (meaning ‘Shining One’) – and that he was very good. But Lucifer also had a will with which he could freely choose. A passage in Isaiah 14 records the choice before him.
How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the North.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.” (Isaiah 14:12-14)
Lucifer, like Adam, had a choice. He could accept that God was God or he could choose to decide that he would be god unto himself. His repeated “I wills” show that he chose to defy God and declared himself to be ‘Most High’. A passage in Ezekiel gives a parallel account of the fall of Lucifer:
You were in Eden, the garden of God.
… I ordained and anointed you
as the mighty angelic guardian.
You had access to the holy mountain of God
and walked among the stones of fire.
“You were blameless in all you did
from the day you were created
until the day evil was found in you.
… and you sinned.
So I banished you in disgrace
from the mountain of God.
I expelled you, O mighty guardian,
from your place among the stones of fire.
Your heart was filled with pride
because of all your beauty.
Your wisdom was corrupted
by your love of splendor.
So I threw you to the ground. (Ezekiel 28:13-17)
Lucifer’s beauty, wisdom and might – all the good things created in him by God – led him to pride. His pride led to his rebellion and fall, but he never lost (and thus still retains) any of his power and traits. He is leading a cosmic revolt against his Creator to see who will be God. His strategy was to enlist mankind to join him – by tempting them to succumb to the same choice that he made – to love themselves, become autonomous from God, and defy Him. The heart of the test of Adam’s will was the same as Lucifer’s; it was just arrayed with a different garb. They both chose to be ‘god’ to themselves. This was (and is) the ultimate ‘god delusion’.
Satan – working through others
The passage in Isaiah is directed to the ‘King of Babylon’ and the Ezekiel passage is addressed to the ‘King of Tyre’. But from the descriptions given, it is obvious that no human is addressed. The “I wills” in Isaiah describe a being who was cast to the earth in punishment for wanting to place his throne above the stars of God. The passage in Ezekiel addresses one who is an ‘angelic guardian’ who once moved in Eden and the ‘mountain of God’. This tendency of Satan (or Lucifer) to position himself behind or through someone else is consistent. In the Genesis fall he speaks through the serpent. In Isaiah he rules through the King of Babylon, and in Ezekiel he possesses the King of Tyre.
Why did Lucifer revolt against God?
But why would Lucifer want to defy and usurp the rule of the One omniscient and omnipotent Creator? An important aspect of being ‘smart’ is to know whether or not you can defeat a potential opponent. Lucifer may have had (and still has) power, but even his limited creature-power would have been insufficient for a successful revolt against His Creator. So why risk all and go for something he could not win? I would think that a ‘smart’ angel would have recognized his limitations pitted against Omniscience & Omnipotence combined – and held back his revolt? So why didn’t he? This question puzzled me for many years.
What helped me was to realize that Lucifer could only come to the conclusion that God was His omnipotent Creator by faith – the same as for us. Let me explain. The Bible associates the origin of angels with the first week of creation. We see this in Isaiah 14 above, but this is consistent through the Bible. So for example a creation passage in Job tells us:
Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said…
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand….
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy? (Job 38:1-7)
Picture Lucifer being created and becoming conscious sometime in creation week, somewhere in the cosmos. All he knows is that now he exists and is self-aware, and there is also another Being who claims to have created him and all the cosmos. But how does Lucifer know that this claim is true? Perhaps, this alleged creator popped into existence in the cosmos just before Lucifer had popped into existence. And because this ‘creator’ arrived earlier on the scene, so to speak, he was (perhaps) more powerful and (perhaps) more knowledgeable than he was – but then again perhaps not. Could it be that both he and the alleged creator had both popped into existence? Lucifer could only accept God’s Word to him that He had created Him and that God himself was eternal and infinite. And in his pride he chose to believe the fantasy that he had birthed in his own mind.
You might think it fanciful that Lucifer would believe that both he and God (and the other angels) just ‘popped’ into existence. But this is the same basic idea behind the latest and greatest of modern cosmology. There was a cosmic fluctuation of nothing – and then out of this fluctuation arose the universe – that is the essence of modern atheistic cosmological speculations. Fundamentally, everyone – from Lucifer to Richard Dawkins & Stephen Hawkings to you & I – must decide by faith whether the universe is self-contained or was brought forth and is sustained by a Creator.
In other words, seeing is not believing. Lucifer would have seen and conversed with God. But he still would have had to accept ‘by faith’ that God had created him. Many people tell me that if God would just ‘appear’ to them then they would believe. But through the Bible, many people saw and heard God – that was never the issue. But the crux of the issue was whether they would accept and trust His Word about Himself and themselves. From Adam & Eve, to Cain & Abel, to Noah, to the Egyptians at the first Passover, to the Israelite crossing of the Red Sea all the way to those who saw the miracles of Jesus – ‘seeing’ never resulted in trust. The fall of Lucifer is consistent with this.
What is the Devil doing today?
So God did not make a ‘bad devil’, but created a powerful and intelligent angelic being who through his pride has led a revolt against God – and in so doing was corrupted (while still retaining) his original splendor. You, I, and all of mankind have become part of the battleground in this contest between God and his ‘adversary’ (devil). The strategy on the part of the devil is not to go about in sinister black cloaks like the ‘Black Riders’ in the Lord of the Rings and put evil curses on us, but with his retained splendor he simply seeks to deceive us from the redemption that God has signaled at the beginning of time, through Abraham, through Moses, and then accomplished in the death and resurrection of Jesus. As the Bible says:
Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)
Because Satan and his servants can masquerade as ‘light’ we are more easily tricked. This is why understanding the Gospel for ourselves is so vitally important.
Almighty God, being Who He is needed a evil person of the highest magnitude, aka, Satan/Devil in order for His pre-ordained work of Redemption of the human race. Besides that God being infinitely Holy needed a in infinitely evil person so God could show mankind in comparative terms how evil Satan is as against How Good God is.
The Plan of Redeeming the human race would never have worked without an Evil Satan coming on the scene. The Fall of mankind was pre-planned so the Redemption plan could workout. The Fall was planned with Satan as the instrument of the Fall.
Hi Andy, there is much about your way of thinking that I do not understand.
Firstly, how can Almighty God ever “need” anyone or anything? Was having Satan around the only way by which He could accomplish some grand plan, for which a truly omnipotent God would be able to devise an infinite number of alternatives not involving the creation of evil?
Moreover, your second sentence seems to suggest that God created evil to show humans that evil is a poor alternative to Himself. This idea brings to mind the humorous Internet meme characterized by the basic formula, “I do not want Event A to cause Bad Event B, so I will cause Bad Event B to prevent Event A from causing Bad Event B.” In other words, there would never have been a need to show mankind “how evil Satan is” if God had never created such an “infinitely evil person” in the first place.
Similarly, the plan of redeeming the human race may never have worked without Satan…but the human race would never have needed to be redeemed without Satan. So, I cannot fathom why God would have planned for the Fall to happen — especially since omnipotence ought to allow God to achieve even the most convoluted of goals without ruining His own Creation, if He so desired.
It may be that I cannot fathom the reason because I am a mere mortal, but I would require a more compelling rebuttal to be able to accept the idea that evil originated from an all-good, all-powerful God.
I often wrestled with this myself. Why does the All Powerful “Need” anything” to help him accomplish a goal. They wouldn’t of needed to go through all this if it wasn’t for starting the satan ball rolling! In slang “Hey God, if you don’t start nothing there won’t be nothing.”
But but but…
I think it all comes down to choice. He COULD have just created an obedient race that worshiped him with no choice or alternative… But he didn’t. Some say you needed the darkness to know how great the light is. You could also say it is a test to see who the true followers are. I say it is about giving us a choice. He didn’t want a sheep heard. He wanted true believers. Believers who had a choice, And CHOSE HIM.
The idea that God was some how instantly almighty, always was almighty, and one day decided to create the universe, is what I call the “Fairyland View Of God”, don’t believe it happened that way. I believe God evolved through infinite time to what he is today, we are talking evolution here. There is nothing in the Bible that says anything against the idea of evolution, in fact the Bible supports the idea of evolution, but that is another story. But somewhere along the line God and the heavenly host had to deal with a problem: just what is right, and just what is wrong. Sin is an action that does not work. A sinful civilization (like America for instance) will collapse, a righteous civilization does not collapse (I don’t know of any). Again the problem is how do you show what is right, and what is not right, the answer: create the devil. First you create this really beautiful creation on the planet Earth, everyone can see it is really right, then you cast the devil down on it to muck it up. The devil proves he is evil, and that his works are evil, and those works destroy. The devil has been given a certain amount of time to do his thing, that time is almost up. I should mention that I do not have blind faith, I have “supported faith”, supported by the great truths of the Bible, for the truth reveals God.
Evolution per definition does not create. There had to be a starting point and all matter/energy had to be created out of nothing before anything could “evolve”. The Bible tells us this creative act was performed by God.
Even the most faithful believers in the theory of evolution admits that “survival of the fittest” does not work for dead elements. Evolution does not explain how the stars, plannets, cosmos or universe came into being. Only living matter can be fitter and evolve.
Evolution cannot explain the beginning of life either. Evolutionists have faith that lightning stirred the primordial soup into life – but have no evidence to back it up. I think the belief that God created life is more plausible.
Observed mutations (evolution science vs evolution faith) does not jump the species line. Finches evolve longer beaks but remains Finches. Big dogs can be bred into small dogs but try as you will never into cats. Or baboons. Observed mutations are not beneficial – the mutants are suffering from deformaties that does not help them survive or find suitable partners to perpetuate the mutancy.
So: God evolved – from what? Who created the building blocks for God? You need a never ending chain of creators. We know the universe exists. So there must be an Ulimate Creator. I believe this is the God of the Bible – the most complelling of all the alternative beliefs.
What do you think when God turned and directed all the religion on to us. I think God himself bowed down to adam behind the curtain when he said to the angle and satan bow down to adam. God and satan are two best friends they all should stop lying to us
that is the truth, God is giving us a choice, that is y he said i gave to u life and death, and he said but choose life.
I would like to comment first of all,we ,the sons and daughters of fallen Adam are not created beings.The angels and Adam and Eve were created perfect by God. They had the ability to speak and walk with the Creator of heaven and earth.They were the only beings with freedom of choice. The only choice we have is to choose evil,because we are born with Adam’s sin. Ephesians 2-1-4 clearly points this out. God has to bring about a change in his elect. Satan and his followers and Adam and suffered a tremendous loss,the effects we feel today. God does not need us we need Him.Richard
GOD did create a perfect race, its by choice we are so disobedient.and only HIS love can set us free. JESUS died on a cross to prove to us that we can be perfect but even then we dont belief.
No the idea that we can be perfect is against God. God deliberately made humans with flaws because He said there would be no Gods formed after himself. If we can become perfect we would become Gods. God alone is perfect. We can be perfect only in the sense that we are perfect for the purpose for which we were created. In that sense every living thing is perfect.
IT IS TRUE OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I WANTED TO SAY THAT HERE THERE IS A POINT OF VIEW WHICH IS PARTIALLY WRONG GOD NEVER DID CREATE A **RACE** HE JUST CREATED CREATURES AND THE ALMIGHTY’S SON THE JESUS NEVER DIED HE IS STILL ALIVE INSIDE OF US ALL HE JUST LEFT THE FORM OF THE HUMAN BODY..
JESUS NEVER SAID WE COULD BE PERFECT BUT WE COULD BE ENOUGH FOR EACH OTHER
BETRAYING ONE’S TRUST
AND FOR THE FACT…IM NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN
IM A HINDU
BUT STILL I DON’T SUPPORT THE “YOU SHOULD FOLLOW ONLY YOUR RELIGION’S SPECIFIC GOD” OR “GOD IS DIFF. FOR ALL
GOD IS ONE HE’S IN OUR HEART HE’S PRESENT IN OUR DEEDS
HE’S THERE IN OUR SOUL
HE’S EVERYWHERE AND YOU DON’T NEED EYES TO SEE GOD
JUST A CLEANSED SOUL
A SOUL WHICH FOLLOWS THE VIBES
THE GOOD VIBES AND DOES NOT SIN
AND IF DOES THEN CONFESSES AND DOSEN’T REPEATS IT AGAIN…
I think it is a myth that we have a choice. It seems to me in order for there to be a free choice there can be no force, intimidation, or threats. To my understanding God has not given us a choice. He has demanded that we choose Him or go to Hell! to my mind that is not a so called free choice. God has given us an ultimatum. We don’t have a true choice.
If we call choosing God or go to Hell a choice than a robber can say that the victim gave him his money even though the robber pointed a gun at his head. God threatens His creation with endless torment if the created doesn’t choose him. That’s not a free choice. A truly free choice must be free from threaths and intimidation.
Many of queries of people in discussion here, can be answered by Sanatana Dharma (Hindu/Indian scriptures), which says the Karma is supreme of all.
Even the Gods and Almighty God of Gods have their fruits based on their Karma.
If I am omnipotent and omniscient then, still I would require to start the engine of my car if I want to have fun of driving my car. I would still require to wake up early in morning and go for jogging if I want to enjoy the morning freshness. It is all about Karma, nothing else.
Isaiah 45:7 ” I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and CREATE EVIL. I the LORD (YHVH) do all these things.”
Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before thee this day, life and good, and death and evil…….verse 19 ” I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live”
Something to think about!
So you mean God himself is no other than the devil?
Yes God himself is the devil
Well said, the devil is an element which God Created to carry out his(God’s) evil plans/works, just as God uses himself as an element to Carry out good works. In conclusion God is Both Good and bad/evil. He is the creator of all and everything, how do we give him the glory and honour of creating everything but evil?? God who can see the end before the beggining created Lucifer, for one purpose only so that Lucifer would later turn into the devil and carry out God’s evil plans. If not so then that would mean the devil was not created by God, both God and the devil came into existence and the God we know is the good God and the devil is the bad God and they are battling it out??
the NKJV translate evil as calamity in verse 7
My NIV interprets as “Creates Disaster”…. big difference…..
The Almighty God created humanity in His image. Free to choose good or evil. What is the alternative? Think about free will and dont place the blame on the creator and you should find the answer.
I should not that Satan is in no way an Adversary to the Almighty. He is our Adversary.
✝ Amen ✝
Satan waged a war to take the throne from God because he saw himself as the God. Satan had one third of the angels to help him achieve that. Satan lost that war. God had the choice to destroy satan and the one third of the angels but he didn’t, but rather destroyed the world that it was and took all the children to himself in heaven and created this second world now, this second earth age, whereby he made the children flesh, male and female. All the angels shall come to the earth through the womb of the woman innocent and make up their minds if they want to be with God or satan. ( this is why satan is still around)
Then comes the third world, the third earth age, where satan and his retinue shall go into perdition.
Yes satan hates God and those who love God.
Very well said.
That is not what the bible implies. When God has already decided to wipe all evil from the earth , at any point that suits him. Then allowing the suffering of the innocent is cruel and without purpose. I don’t recall unborn babies or babies under 1 year old dying in bomb blasts in syria having made and choices and exercising their free will .
I guess you will find a suitable quote to justify this to yourselves.
It didn’t originate from God!!!
God is the Author of all things (Good and Bad). God knew that satan is going to fail; because is all knowing God.
Exactly what I have been saying
I think its not about God knowing its about choice. If it was so why would God allow things to happen yet knowing each and every one of us would fail Him. He created men to have his own mind that means He doesn’t control us but we are in charge of our own lives. So I think at the end of the day it all goes with choice. Otherwise we’ll all be thrown into hell because He knows already? I’m confused there…
If god did that in his omnipotence and explained the way things are after taking action through foreknowledge.we will not have the free will we exercise today. It would have been called calculated will
A fascinating debate….
Would you try to explain everything in the universe to a cockroach? No… Because it wouldn’t understand in terms of how you would explain, there would be no frame of reference.
If a lion could speak to you… It would be gibberish because it’s frame of reference would be so alien to us.
I think it’s the same for God.
He speaks to us through the bible in a frame of reference which is as close to ours as he can get or that we can understand.
Our language, vision, faith is on a completely different level to God’s.
so I believe many mysteries are left to us because if we knew all God knows we would be on a level with him, which is incompatible.
We would also feel that with this shared knowledge we can judge his methods, his works, his decisions.
The Bible tells us that no man can enter the kingdom of heaven but through the son and that to do so we must be as children in our innocence perhaps but also in our knowledge.
If we knew everything we wouldn’t need faith since faith is trusting in something you can not see.
No man may see the face of God and live… so god hides his face from moses, noah, Adam and Eve etc… In order to protect them.
We can’t possibly begin to understand Why lucifer did what it did only that it was so.
What we do know is that it was born out of free will.
You speculate that God created an evil Satan but that contradicts the verses quoted of a Morning Star which abides in the stones of fire and the mount of God.
He laid nations low.
God didn’t create an evil lucifer only that evil was found in him.
So we know that in his beauty, angelic might, he was adored but that he turns against God partly because of vanity but also a free will.
A free will.
Not a preconceived plan because then it wouldn’t be a free will but that he would be simply programmed to follow a set pattern.
If we all had no free will then to love God would not be based on faith and trust but would be forced and therefore not genuine.
God wants us to love him but to choose to do so therefore proving the faith reciprocal in us works.
God could have created a perfect world and no free will whereby lucifer, humanity and the heavenly beings would be forced to love him unconditionally but then there would be no faith in God, which means no trust in God… so there is a balance.
As for God, lucifer, the angels and archangels, iraphim and seraphim and the universe popping into existence simultaneously….
It goes against the teachings of the bible that God always was and always will be.
The alpha and omega, beginning and end.
Which goes against scientific speculation of a big bang and a world which is not eternal.
speculation only. Which fits their atheistic beliefs rather than monotheistic faith.
I like to debate as it broadens the mind.
None of us here have all the answers and that’s a good thing.
We’re not meant to have all the answers but are meant to have a free will based on faith which validates or is validated by the means to the end which in itself is highly subjective.
Salvation or Damnation are ours free to choose.
I welcome replies to this, my e-mail [email protected]
thank you for reading this.
My understanding of this goes back to free will. There has to be a choice otherwise it would be a Dictator God.
Life exists as a result of vibrations.. And where there is vibration there must be a positive and a negative, light and darkness, good and bad, high and low..
Look at technology, nothing is created in the absence of vibrations..
Our job is to balance the vibrations for there to be harmony and that was the same thing God did by creating an infinitely evil being (Satan)..
got did not CREATE an evil being that was lucifer’s own will his own pride which gave birth to SATAN the god did what he did always…let a person/angel do what they want and then letting the karma act on them according to thier deeds all god could do was console to the right path (there is infinity what he can do,but as a fact of creating satan) and yeah…your point of vibrations is quite real
God’s ways are not our ways and no one dare ask God why he does whatever he has done.
He said it that he created both evil and good and by faith like the writer said, I believe he did and I’ll not ask him why he did because he is God.
But definitely good will never be appreciated without evil. Infact we we know and understand what is called good because evil exists.
And I think when I get to heaven, I’ll understand it better by and by.
Hie Michael, I love the way of your thinking. But us as a human race we deserve to know why and how these things occurred that is why questions keep popping out cause in this whole situation we mankind are caught up things are are happening and we don’t know why. So questions are very important
yeah i think so kelvin but we can only find out the true answer after death
Jesus is man/God.
In Genesis it is stated that it is
” not good ” that man should be alone.
He is a loving God who deeply desires communion with His creation. He has consistently shown Himself to mankind..he was “strolling” through the Garden of Eden and called out to Adam and Eve. (Genesis)
That sounds like a friend to me.
He made lucifer and lucifer had a choice just like us and he chose to think that he was better than God. So God threw him to the ground which is earth and he still thinks he is better and more powerful than God so he is trying to take over the whole human race before the messiah comes back as to say haha i took over your prized possession man so i am more powerful than you. Thats what i think. If i’m wrong let me know.
I see what both you and Andy are saying and understand it to the best of my ability (I’m an atheist) but what is to say that it is both? Who is to say that this is all apart of gods great plan from the beginning?
Up until Lucifer was condemned to hell for revolting against God, there was no reason to actually have any form of evil in which God could use for people to redeem themselves. It isn’t until in the garden of eden that god realises how easily humans can be manipulated when in Genesis 2:4-3:24 that a snake (Which has been seen throughout history as being the devil) convinces Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit that God had told them not to eat. Many people believe it is because the fruit was filled with sin but that wouldn’t make any sense, why would God want to have a tree that sprouted fruit that made people sin? that just doesn’t make any sense.
The only explanation to which I can think of is God believed that Lucifer would try and use the humans agains him once he was condemned to hell. God wanted to know if humans could resist temptation and listen to the word of righteousness, which is why he told them not to eat from the tree. After realising that humans can be easily manipulated into sining, he cast Adam and Eve out of Eden, you know the rest of the story.
God realised that he would need a plan, something that would redeem those with a heart of good and stayed away from sin and turn to god when they did sin. Knowing Lucifer wouldn’t stop his path of human temptation, god decided to give humans a chance to redeem themselves.
If I am not making any sense then please tell me.
God never wanted to make a being of evil and hate but sadly he did but he didn’t know nor does anyone believe that he would have wanted to (Except maybe Andy). But with this raising evil, God decided that instead of letting things go or fighting against Lucifer. He would use Lucifers influence and use to to show people how easy it is to do bad things. How easy it is for people to sin and how easy it is to not follow the path of sin and how easy it is to be forgiven for them.
He doesn’t “need anything” to help show his decibels what is wrong and what is right but I believe that he believed that we did. He knows what he is doing and what he wants but we do not and that is why he is using the symbol of the devil as a bad thing. to show us what is right
That is just about all I have to say. I enjoy criticism so if you feel what I said wasn’t right or I left some details out then please tell me. Like I said before i am not a believer in God but I do enjoy reading up on mythology and religion to understand the theory and believe behind it.
Thank you for reading:)
Exactly what I was thinking 🙂
The fall of man was definitely NOT apart of Gods original plan. God wanted relationship. Mans disobedience to God separated us from Him. THEN God put to redemption plan together. It wasn’t His plan from the beginning at all.
Emmanuel~God WITH us…:)
So, you’re saying that GOD doesn’t really know his plan? Is changing your plan something that an all-knowing God would do? Could he not see into the future and see that man would be doomed? The bible says that he looked at man and regretted making him…. What kind of all-powerful god has regrets???
i just want to ask in this part of the bible, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
so adan in the first place is not a good man nor bad
When God created Lucifer, He was creating an angel. It is just that, the angel had rotten thought of desiring being a God himself
through foreknowledge…Why was God not able to forsee the rotting in when He was creating the Angel? Satan did not create himself for, why should he be punished for being existing through God?
One thing you need to bring to mind is that God allowed it to be like that[i.e He had already make prevision for the devil after his creation to desire being like him and also to rebel against him].
Just like the movies we washed,knowing that there is a producer or script writer of the movie,which place the various roles each individual must play.before selecting the people to act in that area.that is just what God did.
Please what happen in Eden never take God unawares.He let it so.
The concept of this evil entity you are all so scared of is not even in the old testament. This imaginary entity is not in ancient hebrew text at all. Satan is mentioned a grand total of 9 times, 5 of these to describe human military/political divisiveness, once in Job to discribe one of gods selected divine council given the legal role of “the accuser” or ” attorney for the prosecution” and another couple of superfluous mentions not describing the evil entity at all. The concept of “the devil” is a New Testament construct( based largely on pre-islamic persian Zoroastrianism) and greatly manipulated, corrupted and given warped credence in translation and interpretation by the church to scare its gullible faith filled believers into submission. The “devil” does not, and never did exist. It is a fairy tale. His popular image is based on Pan and his realm Hades. Belief leading to horror and fear in this type of easily refutable nonsense is laughably sad, don’t you think?
Good call, thats what Ive been thinking
Why create good not knowing what is Evil?
I have worked with some of the best legal minds in modern English history and I wish to apply the principles I learnt in building evidence in a case. By not creating Eve yet God created female and male in all animal species, it is more evident that God knew what Eve was going to do. Instead of Adam, a perfect man (in body and mind)asking God why didnt you create for me a woman? Is there a reason? the selfish Adam, substituted Gods companionship, with the desire to be with someone else. Adam effectively divorced Gods marriage ( Christ will restore it) and chose a flesh marriage.
Lucifer, used Gods legalistic nature against him and used Eves weakness against her being curious by nature. Lucifer without understanding Gods nature of mercy and Love. For God is love ( 1 John 4:8). Only by allowing Lucifer to be God of the earth could God show the angels and the entire created universes, how corrupted power can destroy and also showed his unbelievable love for us. The angels would of seen it in a different time frame as 1 day to God is a 1000 years and a 1000 years a day 2 Peter 3:8. God knew that when he created the earth he himself will need to die to save us. Thats why I love him with all I have, truly he alone is worthy to be God and to be worshipped. So next time you want to give up on someone, remember God never gave up on any of us even before we existed.
You are one among thousands of people that listen other people instead of reading the Bible for yourself and accept what it says, get help from a good concordance, like Young’s or Cruden’s. The Roman Catholic Church is one religion to be steered clear of as it’s behavour clearly shows, they are not a Christian Church, You wouldn’t find Christ in a Catholic Church.
Read Isaiah 13-14 It says nothing about the Devil It says “IT is a proverb against the King of Babylon. full stop. end of story. just accept Gods word as it is written.
Your wrong. God made all good. Selfpride corrupted the fallen angel. And then the fallen angel corrupted mankind. Read chapter one. After the creation of man, Jehova said it was all good. God doesn’t need evil so he can look good. God is good. If you walk with God you see that. But if you choose to walk in darkness, you can”t see the Good … God bless all with all blessing in the name of Jesus. According to his wiil. Amen
What nonsense. If there was no Satan, mankink
would already have been immortal and not needed a saviour.
God creates man in his own likeness, given a free will and knowledge man is creating computers in their own likeness: you can call it artificial intelligence, singularity is a point where machine intelligence supercede man’s intelligence. You can’t rule it out that’s was the case with God and man, you only need to introduce a soul to Ai and it becomes a life too or was God man who now fears his extinction and is seeking immortality through AI or what if God thought Humanity would serve Him for ever the case of man and computer? Or is humanity are God themselves just preserving data from the very first start. I hope we get the third or more better options apart from two things that describes life ” good and evil”.
I once asked my pastor if Satan fell due to his jealousness once he realized there was a second person in the Trinity, Jesus Christ, son of the Father. This could make him “crazy” jealous and realizing he was not “top dog” after God Himself he then revolted. The pastor never gave me a direct reply but seem to think it made sense. Really appreciate any of your thoughts on this idea.
hi andy, so your way of percepting things is kinda different. i understand that but then here comes the fact even though i’m not even a christian i’m a hindu and i don’t know much about the bible but,i surely do know that there is one god..the utmost diety who just wants humankind to be together and strong so why would **THE GOD** would pre-plan the fall of his/her’s very own children?.Then the thing is where it is good there’s bad as well so why would god USE some angel as their WEAPON OR AN INSTRUMENT? i don’t wanna offend your way of thinking but…give a thought on this..try to think this way…
Hey Ragnar, great post. I certainly had never given much thought to what might’ve been going through Lucifer’s head when he decided to rebel.
I see that you have taken great care to make a distinction between the inherently evil devil and the fallen angel who became evil by choice. However, given that cosmic beings like Satan and God exist outside of time, could not Lucifer’s choice be considered as part of his inherent nature? In other words, how is Idea #1, that God created an initially not-evil Lucifer (but fully expecting his almost immediate betrayal and subsequent embodiment of evil), different from Idea #2, that God created Satan evil from the start?
This question has special relevance to humankind because it can be slightly altered to ask the same thing about every man, woman and child whose name is not written in the Book of Life. How could God “knit together in the womb” a person who He knows is going to suffer for eternity after a brief stint on Earth?
Perhaps you are planning to address this and related issues in a future post about free will versus predestination.
This all boils down to choose when God placed man in the garden in which everything was good man choose was to be between good and good however Satan who the bible states by his words used for deception (thou shall not surely die but become as God knowing both good and evil introduced evil as a choose causing man to fall prey to his own curiosity through disobedient
Great post, my question is if God is all knowing and as powerful the way christian make us believe how is it possible that God didn’t know Lucifer will rebel against Him the Almighty? Revelation predicts Lucifer as the winner of this war Between God and Lucifer How is this possible too and finally The war in Heaven between God and Lucifer this has nothing to do with humans who come we are victims of this war? Their are other places God would has thrown Lucifer why earth?
This are questions ive been asking myself for years now and till date no preacher have been able to provide answers to this questions.
Hi Graham. Good questions. I am not really sure about the ‘why’ part. To my mind nothing is clearly mentioned in the Bible re. this. But I am not sure why you would say Revelation pictures Lucifer as the winner. In ch12 Lucifer is thrown out of heaven, and later he is bound. I do think that the war between God and Lucifer does have to do with humans. The book of Job and Satan accusing Zechariah, and the fact that Jesus dealt with Satan in the midst of humans makes me think that. But again I do not (to my mind) think that the ‘whys’ are addressed in the Bible. I guess I figure there is enough given to go on and live life with the soberness of this Enemy in mind.
Every question you’ve asked has answers in the bible …. don’t you ever approach the word of GOD as just another book … every scripture has life … the world was created via words and is sustained via words … for what soever is released from our mouths come to past because its either manifested by the actions of God or the devil “Life and death in the power of the tongue” …. let me submit this to you … if u want answers … Give your Heart to Jesus, allow His Holy Spirit to fill you and He’ll guide you into all truth and revelations ….
You’ll NEVER understand God’s word with a carnal mind and thinking … The Holy Spirit HAS TO HELP YOU!!!
FAITH is required … for without it .. its impossible to please GOD!!! Blessings to you … I pray someday like the Apostle Paul you’ll have a personal encounter and be transformed forever 🙂
If the word is God, then where does this word coming from?
Best Answer and advise Frankie. Wisdom from God answers all. God bless!!
Could it be Lucifer was against God creating humans and placing them on earth and that resulted to the conflict and we are victims.
Great questions! It just so happens that I am writing a Bible Study guide addressing those very questions.
1. God did know that if He gave His created beings the gift of freewill one day somebody would use it to rebel against Him but He thought it worth it anyway. God’s kingdom is one based on Love, and one cannot love without freewill. That is, one cannot truly love without the possibility to NOT love. Though God did not intend for any of His angels to sin He did foresee it and made provision for it. The bible says the plan of Salvation was orchestrated before the foundations of the world (1 Peter 1:20).
2. Revelation actually closes with the destruction of the kingdom of Satan and the ushering in of God’s Kingdom (Rev. 20 and 21)
3. The devil is of the opinion that He would make a better leader for this universe than God (Isaiah 14:12-14). He fought with God in heaven, not with fists and weapons, but with lies and smear tactics, like politicians do. Thus he convinced 1/3 of the angels that God was unjust, selfish and unloving. God could have destroyed him immediately but this would only lead to some of the angels serving God out of fear rather than love. So God banished him from heaven. In creating our fore-parents Adam and Eve God once again endowed them with freewill. They were given the opportunity to choose between believing the devils lies and joining his rebellion or believe the word of God and remain faithful to Him. They chose foolishly. The Bible says if we reject the devil He will flee from us. I believe had they rejected the Devil’s offers Satan would have been banished from the earth as well.
you wrote “God could have destroyed him immediately but this would only lead to some of the angels serving God out of fear rather than love”
So are you saying that it is ok for humans to serve God out of fear? Since Satan was cast to Earth.
in the salvation plan the Bible says that Satatun will be Chained…where will this happen? Will the humans and the Angels witness this? Is this nit cruel that angels will be terrified and cintinue to serve god God out of fear? i think that the Angels are serving God out of fear to be cast to earth.
great insight, thankx
LUCIFER/ SATAN,, is the true creator of the universe ,, end everything in it ,, the heavenly father for humanity and all other living things ,, the bible must be read upside down for the brain washed to get to the right truth ,,,
Why do we have to know all this things after all there is life and death,Good and Evil,Positive and negative Heaven and Hell.
Believe on the Lord Jesus as the Son of God and prepare for yourlife where you will spend eternity.
Joseph, contradictions are abound in the bible. https://www.createspace.com/6829741
Very well said.
Have been reading this discussion with much interest and although I do not consider myself religious in any way (having been baptised and subjected to Catholicism) there is one thing that sticks in my mind in reference to your post Dwayne. Adam and Eve were banished from Eden precisely because they exercised their right to free will. In the bible Satan is portrayed as a serpent; the snake/serpent is widely acknowledged as a symbol of wisdom: In Genesis the apple tree is called the tree of wisdom; in eating the apple Eve and Adam became aware of their nakedness and used fig leaves to cover their privates. In doing so God knew that they had “succumbed” to the “Devil”. In banishing them from the garden of Eden (and this is purely from memory, nothing more) I seem to recall something along the lines of “….Lest they eat from the tree of everlasting life and become as Gods….” Once Man (and Woman) become self aware they may seek to usurp us?
Hi Graham, i welcome you in the mighty Name of Jesus. Let me begin by saying that to understand the written Word of God, you need the leadership and guidance of the Holy Spirit which is given to us by our Heavenly Father through Jesus. First of all you must believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God and Who is also the Christ, Who conquered death and rose again. Secondly you must be baptised with water for repentance. Only and only after you have done these whole heartedly then the bible will be come clearer to you through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
John 14:15-17 – If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever – the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
You say that you study the bible but you are not a Christian. There is your answer,the things of God is foolishness to you because you know not of Him. Pagans argue about the Word of God, you know Graham even Lucifer knows the Word of God. So you need the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth as He is the Spirit of truth. My question to you is how can you know God when you don’t believe in Him. How dare you question my God and His Word.? I speak to you with love, repent, turn from your evil ways and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and until then you don’t have a right to question God.
Hi I am a simple believer in God the Almighty. As God he has the power to create and so he created man in his image (i.e. from spirit form to flesh form) – he put both Adam & Eve in Paradise as that was his plan to permit his creation to live in peace and joy – Lucifer the angel saw this and got jealous and wanted to control God’s creation, he used his mind power and persuaded Eve to go against the will of God (disobedience) he triumphed and thus felt the power of “control” he then challenged God that if given a “free choice” God’s creation would follow Lucifer and all that he wanted to do. Since earth is the only place that God’s creation could live in this became the “challenge” – If I win over all your creation I will rule the world and God took up the challenge and told Lucifer that if he lost then God would banish him out of the earth forever. Meanwhile there were certain rules that applied – Lucifer would not be able to read our thoughts unless we permitted him to do so and he could not take our lives in the same manner. There however, arose a dilemma “all people were not bad, but neither were they perfect” – this is where Jesus, the second person in God came to earth to make us perfect through faith in him together with good deeds. God will judge the world according to its deeds.
I don’t see lucifer as an enemy here, his only playing the role his given because it makes no sense to me how the created will be more powerful than the creator, revelation predicts there will be more people in hell than heaven if this is true lucifer is definitely the winner of this war over humans which makes him more power than God. Am not a Christian but I study the Bible more than any other book. If lucifer it’s really as evil the way the Bible explain there is no way he could have been in the gathering of the sons of God which means His still an acknowledged son of God but maybe a prodigal one.
you say you ‘study’, but do you really know? It takes faith (believing that God is and that His will is Ultimate) to have an understanding and a revelation of everything the bible teaches and stands for. The bible is the Word of God. If you ask God to help you believe it, then some of your confusion will begin to be solved.
How do you believe what you have not seen? It takes faith to do that.
The bible defines faith as ‘the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony’. – Heb 11:1-2 (NKJV).
BETTER BELIEVE IN JESUS FOR YOUR SAKE AND YOUR GENERATION’S!
thk u for the info..
if u can as well liv to awake peoples awareness spiritually through faith in the name of “JESUS CHRIST”, GOD bless u.
Your wrong. God made all good. Selfpride corrupted the fallen angel. And then the fallen angel corrupted mankind. Read chapter one. After the creation of man, Jehova said it was all good. God doesn’t need evil so he can look good. God is good. If you walk with God you see that. But if you choose to walk in darkness, you can”t see the Good … God bless all with all blessing in the name of Jesus. According to his wiil. AmenAmen
Lucifer can be literally the translation of the Latin Lucifer meaning bringer of light which which even refer to Jesus. But people tend to interpret that lucifer is satan by interpreting passage of the bible mentioning the word lucifer as satan when it should not be.Conconct good reasoning to turn a word into what you want it to be interpreted.
He is given permission and will be bound for 1 000 years according to the Book of Revelations dude.
That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.
(Matthew 3:13) Graham do not stop asking questions it is good to believe what you understand. but you will never understand what your soul is not in harmony with, hence I quote the verse above. but do not act like you have something to loose for accepting Jesus. I think you can always choose not to be part of Jesus if what you find in him is not life. only through acceptance will you start to understand the words you read in the bible, the fact that you choose to spend time reading the bible tells me that you do have a lil faith in you so not all is lost with you yet. I can go to heaven and come back, what prove would I give you to make you believe that is true? None… only with your faith will you see the truth. its crazy right? that’s right. you have to reach a certain level of insanity my brother to get all this. sane people look for prove even in cases that they can not give prove.
Hi Graham, I agree with your post. https://www.createspace.com/6829741
All is symbolic, dual for experiencing life truly and perpetually.Evil and God serve the same end meet.
Supposedly a multi – billion dollars businessman had a son. Do you think it is really necessary for the son to question his father’s business dealings? And do you think that every business dealings the father does with all his business partners he will engage or let his son know. I wouldnt think so. Practically, a son seeing his father coming back from work and knowing and believing in his heart that his father loves him dearly is more than enough then trying to question why such business dealings occurred with such business partners. It would not really seem appropriate for the son to dig into his father’s business. The only thing that the father expects from his son is for the son to believe in him and love him. There are some things in this world that is better left alone for our Heavenly Father’s knowledge, wisdom and power. The Bible says through John 20 – 29 where Jesus said to Thomas…. because you have seen me and you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ there is nothing that will separate us from the love of our Father. Romans 8.38 – 39 – For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. Nor Height nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. It would be foolishness to try and ponder or explain things which our carnal mind was never created to understand in the first place by our Creator. 1 Corinthians 3:19 clearly states For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: He catches the wise in their craftiness and in 1 Corinthians 1:25 that the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. May the Holy Spirit guide you through for remember that Jesus warns His disciples in Mathew 16 : 11 – ……Beware of the leavens of the Pharisees and Saducees. The time is near….Our faith as Christians will be questioned but we have to steadfast and keeping believing in him
For sure I would like to accept jesus as my personal saviour accordinTo the words u have read and what I have known here may jesus bless you all let me understand God as me not on prophets for some of them might be false… may the holy spirit guide me in this journey.
agree, this is my thinking.
firstly, you need to know who is this seeking to know things of GOD in this manner. Those who believe know for a fact the way in which these things are unlocked for easy understanding and it is not their responsibility to unlock these things because, you will never know who’s asking. For any one who needs to understand these things, seek GOD first and all these things will be clear to you.
firstly you’ll need to quote the Bible Verses when yo try to unlock anything please??? Please quote the Bible all the time. Anyway …Matthew 6:33…Seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and all these things will be added to you…..Note….”Not clear to you.”….We do not seek after demons…..we cast them out in the name of Jesus…Mark 16.17…..Do not add anything onto the Word of God if its not stated in the Bible. Has it ever been written in the Bible that you should seek after the Devil? We only live to serve God alone and if there is anything readers would want to know its His Kingdom. We do not need to know about the devil because he is already under our feet! (Luke 10.19). The Devil has already been defeated 2000 years ago! Please do not remind readers about the “small tiny ant”…..instead explain about the “Lion of Judah.” God Bless and Keep everyone away from “Wolves dressed as Sheeps”…..David describes in the Bible “Dont let Theologians describe the righteousness of God to you. One will say this, one will say that…Let the bible describe it ie in Romans 4. 6 ” David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works”…..Take note – “APART FROM WORKS”. So next time pls refer to the Bible – We are believers not mere atheists and we come strongly against anyone that tries to explain this things without understanding his Bible “clearly” through the Holy Spirit.
hi , to the moderator ,,
am here just to explain something about the word to CREATE ,,
the word its self stands in two different perspectives ,, 1- to start up [ to be the first in making anything to happen by ,,your will ,,,no help ,using your knowledge as the material ,,],,and there evidence must be piled up ,, etc,,[ creating something out of nothing !!]
2- to form =something new from something old ,, or which has been there already ,,in other words it can even be to REFORM ,,[ materials are needed ,,etc] science proves this nothing can be created out nothing ..!!
Now ,, If the word to CREATE bares different meanings , therefore to deal with the question , Why did God create the Devil ? one must need to first know why the word to CREATE is chosen to define God’s work ,,
To me , i think , and i might be right but not so sure ,, anyway it’s just a point of view ,,,just my opinion ,,, For the UNIVERSE to be created so many different powerful Gods were involved to carry out the creationism and the evidence about this is ,, our planet [ earth ] was not the first to be created ,and it is the smallest ?? !1 ,,other planets are older,,and a bit bigger!! and each planet seems to be with it’s different God with a reason about it ,, different life on each planets ,,, and different works over there ,, but remember the sun is the oldest among all of them ,, and in other words the sun might be the mother of the others ,, the materials of the planets are of sun origin,,, [ search more about that ,, ] the truth is ,,this planet was created by another one powerful God who had came from other planets who discovered the sun which was created by another God to be the LIGHT OF LIFE ,, Now this God achieved the knowledge of to create this earth from the knowledge of his fellow Gods and the word Create here means ,, he was the starter in creating this earth and still he was getting the materials from other planets to using them create this one ,,
[[[ NOTE ,,the word CREATE is used two times in it’s two different meanings to make you get it’s true meaning and why it was chosen to define the Work of GOD ,,God created this earth scientifically but not how the bible states ,, nothing can come out of nothing !!!???..
The Gods were of the same origins ,, some were brothers and sisters ,, others friends ,, etc ,, as you see peoples here on earth ,,[ relationship manner ] but what you have to master here it that ,,, That so called creator was not alone during the process even other Gods were there plus many Angels who were watching theirs friends work ,, [ Job 38:1-7)
the point is here ,,,AFTER the new earth and the new heavens was finished even the creator him self was pleased ,, GOD the earth creator started to give orders [ commands ] to other Gods those who would love to be with him on the new earth ,,
And the FIRST command was ,, –
1-THEY SHOULD ALL BE UNDER HIS FEET AND MUST ALL OBEY HIS RULES ,, MUST WORSHIP AND PRAISE HIS WORK EVERYDAY,, ranking him self the GOD OF THE HIGH ,,,here he ranked other Gods to be smaller than him ,, and even others to a very smaller in rankings which he called Angels [[ the word Angel means a visitor God ]
NOW time to answer the question ,, why did God create the devil ?
God did not create the devil ,, but the devil was also there ,, and always will be there ,,as HIMSELF [ THE GOD ] is,, they both came from the same source ,, at the same time because they all know each other very well and they both know how each and everything came in start ,, they both share the responsibility about this earth ,, AND they were both good loving Gods ,, but what made them loose friendship was the YWH to lower SATAN / LUCIFER / to an Angel rank,,
which LUCIFER refused to accept ,, LUCIFER said why call me an ANGEL when am even more powerful than you ,,and everything [ materials ] you have used to create this [ earth ] is of my own ,,am the one supposed to be your God ,, if not so i will kill you ,, LUCIFER prepared a war and God alone couldn’t fight and win him ,, because his was more powerful that all of them ,, the bible doesn’t states this very clear ,, but LUCIFER won the war ,, and even that God declared him to be the ruler of the earth ,long story ,[ read the book of daniel ]
This shows and proves that the earth was not created from nothing but from LUCIFER’s materials ,,and in other words it means LUCIFER possibly could have been the one in charge of materials transportation from his very own already created planets and some could have been brought forth from the sun ,, even the bible defines it clear that SATAN / LUCIFER ,, does his things on time ,,, and the bible again refers LUCIFER as the LIGHT BRINGER ,, separating day from night ,,, giving them equal time ,, meaning he might have been the one who positioned the sun in the right position in order to provide the maximum right for the entire earth ,,
LUCIFER is here on earth not as accuser or as a destroyer ,,,but as a father or as our guardian , because he is ever the only true God of truth ,, he hates YHW because YHW is a liar and a greedy God ,, he wants to be worshiped all the time ,, his life depends on peoples spirits which were given to them by SATAN ,G[ greedy ] , he wanted even to destroy his name by lying his people about their life,,SATAN hates whoever hates him and he loves who ever loves him
HE WAS NEVER CREATED ,, AND NEVER WILL BE CREATED ,, BECAUSE HE IS THE CREATOR ,, THE ONLY GOD OF POWERS AND WISDOM .
Thanks for your thoughts/comment. So my question is what is the basis of your theory re. Lucifer and YWH? You sometimes refer to the Bible, but it does state quite clearly there that Lucifer was created
‘Created’ here is in your 1st sense – ex nihilo – out of nothing. You may not agree with this and so depart in your theory. But why bother going to the Bible at all then? If it is not a reliable source why refer to it at all? If science is your source of reference, science, by definition, deals with the material/energy and the conventions (or laws) that describe the behaviour of matter and energy. That has nothing to do with Spirits. So science can hardly be your source or basis either for unique events of the past that involve Spirits. So what is the basis of your idea?
Energy is the basis for all things. Scientifically speaking it cannot be created nor destroyed.
This is a comment that is rather not how the adversary came into being, but is in reference to the dual-prophetic announcements in Isaiah 14 regarding the doom of both the adversary and the king of Babylon who was in office at the time of the writing. While this passage that the prophet goes into detail with would very well include what would be described as the characteristic arrogance of satan himself before his “fall like lightning from heaven”, Isaiah is also very clearly making reference to the blasphemous king of Babylon at the time of the writing (indeed, what is described in the context is the end of all who would seek to will themselves above the glory of God, whether they be arrogant kings, the rebellious angel himself who became the adversary,or anyone else simply deluded by deceiving spirits who bring the promise that they may become as “gods”). The Latin word that was transliterated into the KJV as “Lucifer” is what has always been misunderstood and misapplied in regard to its formulation of the myth that this was the adversary’s given name before his fall. The actual Hebrew word that is used here is “helel”, and has the definition of “shining”, as it would pertain to glory and a majestic type of beauty (as in a glorious shining star). The entire phrase that is used here is “sahar ben helel,” and literally means “shining (one), son of the dawn”, or “shining (one), son of the morning”. Why Isaiah used the latter half of the description “son of the dawn”, or “son of the morning”, is not exactly certain, but is most likely connected to Isaiah’s knowledge of the Babylonians’ star and planet gods, and Venus in particular, which is the bright and shining star/planet of the dawn/morning. When the early theologian Jerome translated the Hebrew into the Latin Vulgate, which was the source of the KJV, the actual Latin term that he had chosen to use was the combination of the words “lux ferre”, meaning “bringer of light”. This is transliterated as “lucifer” into English, and since the translators rightly believed that this passage in Isaiah gave reference to the fallen angel as well as the king, as well as “Lucifer” being used as a proper name by the Romans for their goddess planet deity Venus, “Lucifer” then became the assumed “birth” name given to the adversary before his fall, and the legend has lasted throughout the centuries. Since the adversary is indeed the one who masquerades as an “angel of light”, promising “illumination” of knowledge, and fell “like lightning” from the heavens, it is easy to see why the proper name which he has been assigned, which means “bringer of light”, would stick….albeit the “light” referred to is pertaining to the so-called illumination that man may receive to elevate himself above the authority of God….to be fully “illuminated”. Since satan’s legendary mythological counterpart named Prometheus is the demi-god who stole fire from the restrictive and vengeful head-god of heaven Zeus, and brought it down for the “enlightenment” of mankind, Lucifer is indeed a name that this father of lies enjoys being called. This is what gnosticism is rooted in, and to be Luciferian is to believe that the strongest among “evolutionary” mankind will achieve ultimate knowledge and make such great technological advances, that it “will ascend” above what is regarded to be the fairy-tales of the true God, with its “restrictive” religion and morality. This is what God came down and scattered the first time at the Tower of Babel, and the next time will be when His final judgment comes upon the earth.
The Bible, and the Bible God is something I will never believe in, maybe their is a God maybe not but if to me God is love and the Bible God does not define love. I can’t and will never watch my children burn in hell for eternity that does not define love, love is looking for alternatives to deal with individuals.
But the Bible made it clear God has no other alternatives than to burn us unbelievers in hell. The Bible also tells us God can destroy both the innocent just to prove He is God which means his powers are limited too, their is too many question that can never be answered but to me I will suggest we forget all diety and embrace love. Thanks all
John 16:3 and 1 Corinthians 13 says it all vividly, the reason why he came in the form of man and died for us you need Jesus brother seriously. Biggest commandment is about Love….
we need to become great friends ,, i need to learn more about the religion myth,,,Am in Uganda / Africa ,,, what about you ?
This Joseph guy…..
Well, i don’t know what to say really.
I just think he needs prayers, if he’s not an antichrist cos it shows that he is.
May God in His glorious mercy for those who are alive while there is grace, have mercy on your poor soul in Jesus name.
your religion and believe system gives you a free ticket to heaven no matter your amount of sin once you make those prayers your slate is clean, and we the unbelievers no matter how good we strive to be we still burn in hell for not believing in your so called God, makes perfect. Your bible God is a God of injustices and clueless.
If your Bible God was happy in heaven and commanded so much authority in heaven why create humans? why demand worship from human, why destroy the earth with flood and sin came back, why demand for blood scarifies to clean the system that still failed?
Open your eyes to reality your bible God is a myth…
why did God create the devil ?
God did not create the devil ,, but the devil was also there ,, and always will be there ,,as HIMSELF [ THE GOD ] is, they both came from the same source , at the same time because they all know each other very well and they both know how each and everything came in start , they both share the responsibility about this earth , AND they were both good loving Gods ,,
Yes they both were good loving Gods.
BUT ONE THE CREATOR, GOD IN “THE WORD” and one the created, Lucifer the beginning itself. The only angel created by God himself as the first born of every creature and all the rest by/through him.
The very first words by God were:
Let there be light!
Now the above statement was the very beginning, and as I said above, this very beginning was the angel Lucifer the master piece of God, who was the LIGHT BEARER!
Now reflect on that title. The light bearer means that Lucifer was an angel who within himself as an angel CARRIED the light, wisdom, and this light, wisdom is “THE “WORD”, THE SON, the Spirit of the son, which was Lucifer’s life source, and also his MEDIATOR spirit between him as a creature and God, IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ETERNAL LIFE WITHIN LUCIFER AND ALL THE EVENTUAL CREATION.
So as you said: THEY BOTH CAME FROM THE SAME SOURCE, WHICH IS GOD ALMIGHTY!
So they BOTH were the beginning, the light, wisdom, the first born Son, the beginning of every creature. But in actual fact it was
“THE WORD” SINCE HE WAS AND IS THE ONLY LIFE SOURCE, AND ALL BY HIM, ALL IN HIM AND ALL FOR HIM!
At one stage they were in full harmony with EACH OTHER and with God, and they created the heaven and earth.
But Lucifer started to look at himself rather then look at God’s love, and he ended loving himself more then love God his creator.This SELF LOVE started a conflict between HIM AND “THE WORD” THE SPIRIT OF THE SON, from within him.
The above conflict was culminated on the cross, but still WITHIN HUMANS SINCE ADAM AND UP TO THIS VERY DAY.
This is further accentuated when one for the love of God and truth, through the work by the Holy Spirit reflects on:
Job 20:15,19,20. both for the sake of its ORIGIN, and of the truth related to these two fundamental spirits, at one stage, BOTH lights of God, sons of God, beginnings of God, ends of God, morning stars, and ironically, EVENTUALLY the achievement of God’s kingdom!
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON.
MALE AND FEMALE, ANDROGYNOUS, BETWEEN
THE SPIRIT OF THE SON, “THE WORD” JESUS’FLESH BODY, THE FATHER’S HOUSE, THE FATHER’S ABODE.
THE ETERNAL LIFE OF THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL PERFECT CREATION!
John17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life ….
and SATANA/LUCIFER’S SPIRIT, THE ENTIRE MORTAL CORRUPTED PHYSICAL CREATION !
John 18:36 Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world.
King James Bible
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
#1 it was in the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth #2 the earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep #3 and GOD said let there be light and there was light. then GOD said let us make man in our image #1GOD the FATHER #2 JESUS the SON # and the HOLYSPIRIT and it is so. the choice is your
I’m sure that the second respondent is totally misinformed,cause he lacks evidence to substantiate. There is only one God and many gods, i,e the form here is important. Please read your bible carefully. There is only One God and the devil also knows it. I agree with scriptures with the first person he paints the picture clearly.
God does not need permission to either Create or form for that matter.
The next verse says and God created men in his image. The truth is that Jesus says in John 5 that Moses testified about Him, where? Genesis,Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deutoronomy. This is a subject of revelation not easy to understand that He is God himself. I can substantiate through scripture.
devil is a wicked person and he uses evil ways to get others and crash them
Isaiah 14 is all about the king of Babylon.
v.4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,
He is called a man
v.16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Is that not what the cults do; wrest scripture out of context to fit their preconceived ideas? Just wondering
HI Paul. You have a good point and it should be weighed as we interpret the passage. But what I find interesting is that consistently through the bible the Devil operates ‘through’ someone. Starting with the serpent in the garden all the way to the ‘beast’ in Revelation, with notable touchdowns in between such as Judas, the biblical view is that the devil is very real but usually working behind someone else. So it is entirely consistent to view the King of Babylon in the same way. He is a human person but the devil is also working through him. So the passage views this at both levels, the human King of Babylon, but also at the spirit behind him (v. 12 – the son of the dawn fallen from heaven)
II have had an insite of Satan defiling Eve. If so, he must
have had offsprings by her. And that is my personal belief.
For how else one would justify the wickedness of this world?
I have reason to believe that Lucifer
is not the creator of this world for
he hasn,t got creative powers!!
Thank-you I enjoyed reading your post
Thank-you for your post. It well thought out Ragnar. And very informative. I got fresh insight from it. It will help me in the dissertation I am writing. Blessings
“THAT OLD SERPENT” (WAS) IS HUMAN NATURE …
“And the LORD God said unto the serpent: ‘Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle, and from among all beasts of the field; upon thy BELLY SHALT THOU GO, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.” [Gen. 3:14 JPS Tanakh 1917] http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-14.htm
“for DUST THOU ART, and unto dust shalt thou return”. [Gen. 3:19 KJB] http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-19.htm
“Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the DEVIL prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to DEVOUR”.
[I Peter 5:8 NIV] http://biblehub.com/1_peter/5-8.htm
“If you BITE and DEVOUR each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.” [Gal. 5:15 NIV] http://biblehub.com/galatians/5-15.htm
(Remember? DUST shalt THOU EAT all the days of thy life)
“WALK” [TENDENCY http://bit.ly/1R6Af9N%5D
upon thy belly shalt thou go [http://bit.ly/1jYdN8H]
They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite [(STOMACH -NIV; BELLY -ESV)], they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth. [http://biblehub.com/philippians/3-19.htm]
“SHALT THOU GO” [INCLINATION http://bit.ly/1jqbTgx%5D
This I say then, Walk [http://bit.ly/1Mr9Iop] in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [http://biblehub.com/galatians/5-16.htm]
“He seized the dragon–THAT OLD SERPENT, who is the devil, Satan–and bound him in chains for a THOUSAND YEARS.” [Rev.20:2 NLT] http://biblehub.com/nlt/revelation/20-2.htm
“When the THOUSAND YEARS are over, Satan will be released from his prison” [Rev. 20:7 NIV] http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-7.htm
“The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE COMPLETE. This is the first resurrection.” [Rev.20:5 Berean Study Bible] http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-5.htm
The REST OF THE DEAD are those who did not make it to the FIRST RESURRECTION – They are SATAN – Humanity without CHRIST – They are in PRISON of DEATH – Satan or the rest of the dead will be released from the PRISON or chain of death after ONE THOUSAND YEARS. All eyes will see him, they will be given their first opportunity to really understand …
Correct, Yahveh did not make Satan or Lucifer bad to begin with. The bible clearly states Yah made satan the most beautiful covering angel of light. Had the Creator made satan defective implies satan could not help himself but sin. Satan knew quite well what he was doing. Pride and a thirst to control was behind his action with 1/3 of the angelic host and then with man. Wisely Yahveh cut man’s life short and encapsulated us in time and space so we would not be like satan in that regartds. Eve may have accepted Satan’s cover of lies compromising Yah’s word but we have the choice to choose between satan’s cover of pride and deceit or Yeshua’s eternal life covering instead, the only covering that counts.
hey guys.. pay a little attention..
Did sin came through satan.. or sin was already before satan..? if that in case why did satan sin in heaven..?
Satan was the first to sin. He sinned in heaven because it is not our location that determines whether we sin or not, but our hearts. He was proud
Everything created in heaven and earth was perfect, the angels of God had no free will like humans if this is the case, then I hear Satan rebelled against God and 1/3 of the Angels followed him. How can this be if they have no free will?
The war in heaven was it before or after creation? to me I see the whole bible story as a propaganda, a sham. Christians find it very difficult to defend their own believe system, instead of applying logic to their teachings they leave everything to faith.
NO, my dear bible is not at all propaganda that is the only bitter truth which can not be easily digested by many.Read bible carefully and compare what is written , says and verify whether this is happening today’s life or not. read Jermiah CHAPTER 30,VERSE 24.
Is it social okey to change your name to Lucifer?
I’m a 15 year old boy and I live i Sweden. Sweden is a country with many religions and theories but the majority of uss are temporary atheists (It means we belive in sience and if god is proven we will accept it)
I have the last years thought about the cristian religion but not for the sake of converting only because I’m interested in the human and its nature. I have read numerous articles about Lucifer and his story because it catches my interest. I have in my later days thought about changing my name to Lucifer because it has a great meaning, and i think it sounds good but mostly because it matches my belives as an atheist who think god didnt creat him and that he (the human) is the thru ruler of the world. I dont mean to spread my religion or my thoughts i just want to know your thoughts on: Is it acceptable to change your name to Lucifer? And do you think christians would take it as a bad sin or me mocking their religion?
Please leave me an anwser and comment 🙂 im open for every thought.
Bye and thanks for Reading this.
Anton, I would recommend against it. It would be much like changing your name to Adolf Hitler. It is one thing if it was your given name, you had no choice. But I think anyone who met someone who changed their name to Adolf Hitler would assume that they supported the Nazi world view and hated all Jews.
In the same way, changing your name to Lucifer sends the signal that you are anti-God and anti-human and want to see any image of God defiled and destroyed. Basically that you are into hurting people.
Not the best way to meet new friends.
More than self rule, Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, whatever we refer to him as, he is self centered. Not just obnoxiously self centered, but to the point that he wants no one to experience anything that he can’t enjoy, like the brat on the playground that wants to take his ball and go home because he isn’t winning the game.
Whether you think of him as real or not, it sends a message that I don’t believe you want to send to people who don’t know the real you. First impressions are lasting impressions, and changing your name to Lucifer would put you at a disadvantage as you develop new relationships.
Wow thanks Tim for the great comment and reasoning, I know exactly what you are trying to tell me (I did even think for myself on the whole “Adolf” scenario).
The only thing that is a problem to me is that I don’t see Satan and Lucifer as the same person… I think that Lucifer is the archangel, selfawear, the morningstar, doubting gods powers (not to be confused with blaspheming), but free of sin and everything evli. AND I see Satan as the post-product after his fall and corruption.
I know that not everyone will get this directly but in Sweden to be fair no one even knows that the Devil/Satan was named Lucifer when he was an angel.
The thing is that if someone (in Sweden) knows the tale of the angel Lucifer then I think they wont mind some explaining and learning. And everyone here is really open-minded and not so judging. (Then also the first impressions wont get too ruined because the person that I meet won’t know that i CHANGED my name to Lucifer unless I say so.)
I will go to a priest and ask him/her about this all and search for a good solution concluding reading the Bible, I will also probably not change my name before I’m 18 years old. (For your information I have no tatoos, piercings and so on and I’m not wearing all-black clothes.
For last I think that if you can rename yourself Moses or Abraham (which has a big meaning in religion and re-inforces it) then you would be able to rename yourself Lucifer.
Thanks for reading this and PLEASE comment either way if you think I have a great argument or not.
I have read numerous articles about Lucifer and his story.
Did you read that God created the first creature Lucifer, and His intantions were that Lucifer would never become evil to the extent that he would never be able to return back to God even if it seems an endless process.Although not as an Archangel.
Also did you read that by Lucifer, in Lucifer, and for Lucifer God created both heavens and earth, both spirits, and matter,and although Lucifer as an archangel is not in existence he in actual fact became God’s enemy, simply to be most glorified, for the simple reason that God’s love at the very end would have all creation, ex Lucifer’s substance as children in one same blood, through Jesus,in Jesus, and for Jesus.
So the more evil a creature is, the more he would be punished, and the more he would be punished the more he would be glorified.
As proof that Good is superior to evil.
Charitable love is superior to selflove.
Something that it is vital for God,s kingdom to function for eternity without even the least hope that there would ever be another creature even to have again the least concept of self love in order to be like the most high.
Something which Lucifer as the first creature was deluded in!
Peace be with you;
Your story about satan in here doesn’t makes sense, because you compare status of satan with Adam, satan was an angel and never been warning, but Adam has been warning. Bible doesn’t say clearly why satan want be a god, even we assume satan wanted be god, he would create for himself a domination, not to against the mankind or have war with God.
Joseph, i am aware that you had typed that God did not create the “devil” which is correct but, when you said”HE WAS NEVER CREATED ,, AND NEVER WILL BE CREATED ,, BECAUSE HE IS THE CREATOR ,, THE ONLY GOD OF POWERS AND WISDOM” If he wasn’t created than why would people sin and if he was why would he make a God and if neither is real than, what makes Human kind sin? What makes Human kind do good deeds? you say he’s not created then state He is the only God. He can’t magically be in existence with out something or some one being in existence. Kind of sounds like an oxymoron.
Here on earth there’s nothing like sinning ,, it even makes nonsense to say man sins,, man is doing what he supposed to do like any other living creatures ,,according to the nature of his life involvement ,, man achieved a free will to live and die after a short time ,, and that free will grew instantly within his mind ,, making him to do anything he chooses that fits his deeds ,, eg,, if you become a shit in-front of anybody ,, the reaction towards you is a negative ,, and that negativity is not sinning ,,
the word sin in brief means,,, to do something that is against the laws of any religion ,, and remember religions are man made fables which were put into place to manipulate and enslave a world populace ,the founders wanted to convert man from a natural free thinking way of living to a remote of laws which they had formed to make them brainwashed so that they easily rule them forever,,,,
man’s life has no difference if you compared with all other living things ,, the true definition of man is,,, Man is the earthly wisest animal,,
, ,apart from being wisely great,, many have now become just very stupid to the extent that they don’t know what is their life purposes ,majority thinks they’re here to serve religions and to obey their laws and later die and go to heaven to meet their fathers ,,,, that’s a false religious doctrine , and it was designed like so, in order to confuse the innocent minds of the people,, that one must do as he/she is told so that they don’t miss that lied great event ,, and there they added who ever will refuse to do so will be categorized as a sinner ..,,and his father is devil ,,
The devil was a term used to stand in the position of a none RELIGIOUS father of believers , who rejected the religions and the concepts of gods at the first place ,,[ A TRUE GUARDIAN OF THE NATURAL FREE WILL OF LIVING ,, in your fake bibles [ OT ] somewhere ,, the devil / satan / lucifer / etc is referred as the ADVERSARY,,, This stem means “to oppose,” or “thwart” anyone in his purpose or claims.,, it’s not an angle or what !!,,,, but rather a situation of rejection and opposing>>,,that simply means no god created satan because satan was and is a natural character / behavior of living and this doesn’t need a cause [ god ] ,, it’s already a natural cause by it’s self ,, everyone breathes it automatically ,, we achieve it all of us automatically ,,,it’s why religious people say,,, the devil is always present everywhere ,, the true natural powers are active ,,,
so the concepts of the gods were later created by man after involving more knowledge from nature ,,,[ MAN MADE GOD IN HIS IMAGE ]
There am not wrong to say ,, the true god is the natural powers of nature ,, and if nature is defended by the devil ,, then the true god who needs no creator is SATAN
1- kill it’s not a sin
2-to steal ,, no sinning there
3- to admire other people’s property ,, not a sin
4-to believe in anything you want ,, not a sin
5- to betray ,, not a sin ,,
[Mankind has grown great in eternal struggle, and only in eternal peace does it perish.]
I’m sorry but I have to disagree.
The knowledge of right from wrong is important to us mere mortals as a method by which we can live peacefully alongside each other.
If I interpret your meaning correctly; you would rather mankind has no laws, no right from wrong, no morality.
Would you steal from the elderly?
Would you rape your mother?
Would you steal from her?
Would you covet your neighbours wife/land/property?
Would you take from your children to feed yourself?
Would you murder?
If you steal from your father… You steal from yourself because you are of the same blood.
You can call it wrong! Or you can call that a Sin!
If you murder in cold blood a defenceless man… You betray him and yourself since you abandon your morals and become worthless to everyone.
Same with rape… theft…abuse… I could go on and on.
No matter where the origins lie or motive…. experience has taught us that if we treat others as we would be treated life would be easier If it was a universal concept.
Lawlessness/immorality would naturally shorten the lifespan of our species whether you’re religious or not.
We have free will. You could if you so wished break every commandment one by one… whether you know the consequences or not… ignorance is no excuse.
You know right from wrong.
You know you feel bad when you do something wrong to someone intentionally.
Your knowledge wouldn’t come from any text, religious or otherwise but is rather validated by them coincidentally.
If there was no religion you would still have a sense of right from wrong… Good or bad… salvation or damnation.
I would hope so in any case.
If the creation of such huge volumes of texts in every culture/religion were simply to Tell humanity how to act….. It naturally follows that without such texts we would be hopelessly lost and incapable of surviving in a peaceful way and frankly not worth saving.
Not only that but how would the masoretes etc as well as the scribes of 5-10th century Hebrew Law (dead sea scrolls etc) know that their texts would stand the test of time to somehow enslave an otherwise hopelessly lost/immoral civilisation 3000 years later? And further still… Why would it matter to the original authors?
It makes more sense to suggest that rather than trying to enslave us… regardless of the truth of the after death scenario, the bible was written to give mankind Hope, something to believe in, salvation.
Without it we would be our own gods and our civilisation would not have made it into the 21st century.
Your last statement;
Mankind has grown great due to war… eternal peace means mankind dies out is frankly obsurd, counterintuitive and bordering on ridiculous.
We grew great with the mass killing of 6,000,000 Jews est.
We grew great in world war 1?
so with nuclear weapons, according to you…
World war 3 would be an amazing success with the poisoning of the air via radiation/nukes/atom bombs…. We would grow great with a depleted population in a poisoned planet………
hmmmm. Don’t think you thought that through Joseph.
Are you on medication?
The Bible images the creation of man from the dust,,,, but where in the Bible do we read God creating soil of the earth as dust,,? Do we need just to believe in everything because is told by the priests? what I think,, even the conceptions of the angels according to the Bible was just a mythological image of the Bible writers,, because they didn’t define anything apart from trying to imaginate,,, if man was created from dust then how about the angels,,,??? Were they created from bread?? There still could be a standing question needing an satisfying answer,,,where had the bread ???? came from,?
And there am right to say no God is responsible for creating another God,,, the same to angels,,
Angels and God’s falls in the same Devine categories,, it’s like two brother twins,, eg, (here on earth) ,, one becomes a king another becomes a kings army top commander,, the difference there is the duties,, but both stays naturally smilirar,, etc,, now here I put yahuev in the kingship seat and put lucifer as the kings army top commander,, when the kings ( yahuev) rules badly,, the army commander ( lucifer) is then in a good position to question and warns the king because he’s the leader of the defense,, ( tried)
But before conquering the king,, the king falls in his plan and looks for a solution to punish him,, ie, arresting, and dispostioning him,,,and he does so successfully,, now,,,does that mean the king was the father of the army commander,, the answer is No’! because we already know their backgrounds,, they are twins,,same father,,
Now after the king wins but with a lot of beefs he start to falsely explain to the people,, am the one that had made that boy what he has been,, he used the powers I had given him badly, he wanted to unseat me,,he betrayed me,,he accused me,, he wanted to destroy my everything,, according to all of that,,it gives an image that lucifer was not bad upto that extent but because his brother was so excited for what he brother wanted to do,, he had to destroy his name completely,,, the Bible was also wrote under the orders of yahuev,, and to me yahuev or Jesuit sounds like a religious institution of that time organised by fake guys pretending to know more about the facts of universe,, yet they left a lot of blunders which today has brought nothing good,,wars everywhere,, there I advise some of you to stop taking biblical writings literally, most of them were just trying to give images of the unseen kingships,,since none of the writers described the material of God nor the material of an angel so stop confusing your minds to wanting to know their differences, they’re all equal in their godly divination,, they only differentiate their duties,, all are of spirit and of the same source, the same way you can see any corrupted clan,,
Joseph, do you see the goodness in someone killing someone for the sake of “free will”? this means you really understand with so much love when someone shoots you and take your staff without your concern, how nice this god of yours Satan seems to be so polite Joseph. lets just fuck up the world in the name of free will. Your common sense seems to see this picture as a perfect world to leave in.
YHWH created good and evil and thus is beyond them. Either he created Satan evil from the beginning or he became Evil through choice, but either way God would know his outcome so is ultimately responsible for evil, the remedy of which is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
Do you not realise that the Bible (Old Testament) is a fiction. At best someone’s attempt to rationalise where we have come from. No one knows who wrote it or what their motives were. Therefore to base your life’s moral compass on a book of fiction is to my mind a complete folly. Whether you have a religious outlook on life or not, surely basic respect and kindness to one and other should be our our moral compass.
Also can I ask, does anyone have or know of any contemporaneous material, document, evidence that Jesus or indeed his Disciples (four of whom are credited with writing the New Testament) ever existed ? The same question can be asked of Mohamed credited with the Quoran.
Why did God crest man in his own image … I’m sure he knew that man will fall ???!! God is God. He created everything and gave it free “WILL” he expected lucifer to worship Him out of free will just as He did with man … lucifer fell first .. and so did man through lucifer … I’m sure God did nothing out of fun but simply looking for true worship one that is not forced or manipulated in a certain way … “Do you know that God gave man “will” meaning you have the power to choose even against your own creator ?!!” It’s called the power of “free will” which he gave to all that he loved… I hope I answered your question.
Hello just a question, why did God created an angel with so much pride knowing he would fall. I’m sure He did know Luicfer would fall right?
Lucifer was an instrument of CREATOR, Angel Michael was the bravest, strongest, sadist killer against temptation made by Lucifer (the intelligent, gambler, cheater, mind twister and a great motivator to encourage every human into TEMPTATION), this two instrument are made by CREATOR built in our human body now as seeker of doing good is like an harvesting of good quality and that’s final decision that we made before death so who*s the winner between LUCIFER and MICHAEL ARCHANGEL???????
If you want to know the truth, then the best thing to do is ask God directly for it most sincerely. He will show you the truth. In fact, he will allow you to experience it, recognize what you have experienced and then you will read about exactly what you’ve experienced in the Bible. This is what it is to be “Born Again”. If you want the heart of a child, then do this and all the deception of Satan’s world and reign here on Earth will fall away…I promise.
I love my soul more when He Lucifer enters into me and commands me to obey and subject my body mind and soul to Him for He is the One and Only Alpha and Omega My Lord and Husband and Father
The spirit of the highest (Yahweh) God through Jesus Christ dwelling in the life of individuals that believe in Him has always made an open disgrace of the spirit of devel in an individual who has been demonized(Such a person as you) either by the individuals’ action or inactions. I pray that you will by
the love of Christ encounter freedom.
Hi, guys please try to read Bible more and more, so that you will know the truth.
So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
The topic concerning the Devil is a hot subject, as he is the second most well-known character (after God) in world history. I wrote a book about this subject, where Satan and God clash among each other for power and rule over the universe throughout history.
Ok firstly lucifer was an angel he fell after displeasing his father (god) who punished him by making hell making him lord of hell god did not create a devil lucifer is still an angel an the whole point of hell is to punish the souls of evil wicked people. If lucifer were evil why is it his job to punish evil? In short he punishes those who are evil he himself is not evil.
Actually his job is not to ‘punish evil’ That is God’s job. Satan is evil and does evil things to people but most of that involves tempting and deceiving them. God will punish Satan at His appointed time
God and the Devil have been fighting to rule the cosmos. Satan is ruling now, but God will win the final battle. https://www.createspace.com/6829741
Even if you worship God or devil at the end you are going to die and we really do know what happens after that.
Today everyone needs a happy life and happy life is mostly related to money and power.
When you worship God you have to pass many exams to achieve something which you need but I have heard that when you worship devil you get what you need and it is quick
I really don’t have any idea but believe me i want to try evening thing in this world and even everyone should do that
We live only once and after that what happens are only assumptions.
Have a good life and be happy
ACCORDING TO BIBLE AND MY BIBLICAL KNOWLEDG GOD DID NOT CREAT A DEVIL.
IT IS NOT MENTIONED AT ALL IN HIS 7 DAYS OF CREATION WORK .
IN FACT HE CREATED A BEAUTIFUL ANGEL (EZIKEL, CHAPT.28, ISHIAH-CHAPT.14/12, ZECHRIAH 9/1-3).
LATER, AS THE IT APPEAR THROUGH BIBLE THAT ANGEL BECAME ARROGANT BECAUSE OF HIS BEAUTY, TITLE AND MOTIVATED OTHERS ANGELS TO REVOLT AGAINST THE ONE GOD.
That’s funny though. But God did created the devil as was found in the book of Isaiah 28 : 13. Read it to the end and see who God was referring to. It’s pretty clear.
Why did God plant the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden knowing that adam and eve will be deceived.
the real question to me is that why God just did’nt kill Lucifer aka. Satan at 1st … why did he permitted the corruption of humanity and cast the curse of death as the bible said..
First of all in what I have gone through I believe that GOD does NOT exist
That’s your choice to believe, but just because you don’t believe God does not exist doesn’t mean God does not exist.
Wow this is incredible
Hello to all commented,
To clear a lot of doubts, our brain cells was made with endless innovation but with limits to divination. Hence some things are not within our reasonability.
In most verses of the Bible where God has spoken, he had defined himself as a sovereign ruler who is infinite in power and all things. Some wonders that pointed to his absoluteness can be found in the book of Job 37 reading to chapter 40 downward.
A good answer to the questions as to either why he had sent down evil to torment his work for purpose of redemption? or why he hadn’t strip Satan off all of his power as he acclaimed his creator can be found in the book of Revelation 4 : 11. “Thou art worthy o Lord : to receive Glory, honour and power, for thou art created all things are for thy pleasure”. The emphasis here is on the last 7 words. That pretty explained why God had allowed situation to be that way.
If we also consider a fact that Satan was relieved off his position before the creation of Man and everything on the Earth. The Earth has been existing and so Satan with his power cannot create life or give any, otherwise he would have done that before God even think of it.
In Genesis 1 : 26, we could see a conversation amongst the heavenly hosts with God as the supreme ruler saying, “Let us make a man in our likeness….. .This thus signalled a Pre-plannned/synergy that the devil is not aware of. If he is aware of it, he might be tempted to go into reconciliation but not for his corrupted heart. Who can agree with me that Satan’s heart might have as well been hardened by God since a programmer can choose to alter any of his source codes or data members to trigger a desirable function. Likewise God is a sovereign ruler who does what he likes without anyone to question his authority. His omni attributes define not his ability to refrain from using evil as a tool but his ability to do things without limit.
I often told people that God is the greatest programmer. It was said in the Bible, “his will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven”. This asserts the statement above. Everything that happens here on earth is coded. So it is impossible for things to work out of the scope for which they’re programmed. An instance is “giver shall never lack”. This is a return function for anyone who inputs the right command “giving”. Same way Satan’s OS was designed by the Almighty. He can choose to alter anything in him anytime the way he likes. But he is a God of procedures. He follows a set of plan and executes it without leaving any unused.
Sir, you are totally incorrect. The problem with your theory is, computers don’t have free will, angels and human beings do. God’s greatest desire is for His children (all souls) to love Him in return with the same intensity as He loves us. The mediator of love between God and mankind is Jesus Christ. If your theory was correct, God would have never came out from Himself to prove His love by dying to redeem all the angels who lost their immortality when they rebelled with Satan in the first earth age. I think you do understand that in Genesis 1:1 when God created everything, even the souls of the angelic beings, we all existed in the eternal dimension as spiritual beings. Here is the reason Genesis 1:26 had to be executed:
 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.
Satan was created good and not evil like all other souls, but he chose to want to be God, instead of reverencing Him. That’s why he was sentenced to death. Mainly for causing a third of the angels to rebel against God with him, and attempting to usurp the throne of God.
Now is the time of redemption, but the time is approaching when all souls must choose eternal life or eternal death. God loves all of His children so much that He gave us the possibility to have freewill regarding the choice we make. Those who choose eternal life will choose to love God through Jesus Christ, and those who choose eternal death will make the decision, of their own free will to follow Satan, into eternal non-existence. I would say this is God’s true unconditional love.
And the real winner is, Lucifer.
If Lucifer is the real winner: The question is, will you follow him into eternal non-existence? Do you love him that much?
Look at the sky , you will see drones , satellites , helicopters , and planes , clearly not GOD’s Kingdom.
And there are foot soldiers too !
he didn’t created satan. dad don’t like to create a bad ass.you created me. satan is not a devilish creature or a human like creature with red skin and horns. I am a soul , a way of thinking, or personality trait that you all share. you just do not want to accept that. I am inside you . and you are feeding me every single moment. may dad almighty forgives you and don’t throw you in hell.
The story of Satan… god made a painting ???? and the painting was love then he made different beautiful colours which were angels and as time went by these colours would paint the painting with their own colours but one of the colours thought why not ask god to make me black so that when ever another color painted on the painting he could color it with black and over do the colours coz he didn’t like love and then that’s how the black became the devil the one of a kind color
God created Satan because He God gave humans a FREE WILL, to choose between right & wrong. Its God’s test of the humans he created.
I would like to suggest that maybe God the almighty created Satan with the same intensions as he did with man .. and he expected that Saturn will not fall but have free will to do as he pleased .. just as he did with man … and because God is fair and just never wanted to control any of its creation but expected high regard from them to follow him through free will and be as he required of them .. just as man got greedy and fell so is Satan .. remember God still remain to be God no matter what He Allows us to choose and I think the devil had the same chooses ..
There is no scripture in the bible that says God created the devil, but there are scriptures that say God created an angel who posses God-given gifts and powers and later rebelled against God due to pride. so Lucifer created the devil out of himself when he rebelled against his Creator. Hence the statement ”God created the devil” is false and unbiblical.
There are two options available for man to choose from. The God option and the Lucifer option. Each option has its features, price and rewards. God is so loving and merciful that He won’t enforce His own option on us even though its the sweet option. That won’t make God value you because you won’t give Him the glory of choosing His option over Lucifers option. Rather He made both option clearly known to us including the prices, features and rewards of each option and gave us mankind, the choice to choose any option we like . I think this is a fair deal. In other words, God is very fair on this deal and must not be blamed whatsoever by anyone on why He created Lucifer in the first place nor why He allowed the Lucifer option to exist. We also have the choice to ask God in sincere prayer to Him to remove our power of choice and make His option dominate our life so that we can obtain the benefits or rewards of His option at the end. He God also adviced us to choose His option out of love He has for us . He went further, sending His only Son, Jesus Christ to help us get and maintain His option easily. What else has He not done for us to get His option? So any choice u make, you are fully and solely responsible for your choice period. I advice that you reading this piece of mine to choose the God option . Repent of all your sins , accept Jesus christ as your lord and savior, embrace the words of God and enjoy the benefits of Heaven the God option at the end, cheers.
Perhaps God is the trickster
Everything were planned by God. God knows everything in the past, present and future. In short God knows what will happen. God is God
here, we state our opinions so there’s no such things as wrong here. but for me god created the darkness just like in genesis the whole day will not called whole day without night, without darkness .there is no even things such as good things without bad things , day without night,rich without poor ,normal without abnormal, so i think god created us with complete world to live and it is for us weather we want to be good or bad. evil purpose is to see how powerful and good our god is . but there’s an evil thing to show us the difference between good and bad . and it is our choice if we go to the right side or bad side
Please stop pretending to know what God’s plans and intentions were when he first created the universe.
The truth is that we have no way of knowing the real truth.
Imagine this is like a case in criminal court. We cannot know for sure what God’s (the accused) intentions were, because we are not him and cannot see his thoughts.
And before you say anything, the Bible is not admissible into evidence, as there is no way of proving its authenticity.
Since there is no proof or way of truly knowing, the only option is to declare God innocent of any action we are trying to label him with, whether good or bad.
We can only walk away from that court with our own thoughts and opinions, which we are all entitled to.
It is not a question of whether we have free will or whether we were created despite God knowing which path we would take, but rather a question of can we accept that we can never and will never truly know all the facts.
Some years ago while in deep meditation the thought came to me that Satan revolted when he realized that though he was a privileged creature of God there was one before him, Jesus, God’s son. He no doubt became jealous and envied God’s Son. This fact drove him to revolt. Later I posed this thought to our pastor but never got much response. Would appreciate any thoughts on this as I personally continue to hold this view.